Black History Now
CELEBRATING BLACK HISTORY BY FIGHTING FOR BLACK FUTURES: A CONVERSATION WITH ALICIA GARZA AND REV. MICHAEL MCBRIDE
Community /
February 2022
For the final installment of our “Black History Now” series, we hosted a conversation between Alicia Garza of Black Futures Lab and Rev. Michael McBride a.ka. Pastor Mike of LIVE FREE, two organizing leaders who have worked tirelessly to amplify the needs of Black people on a local and national scale. The pair discussed their friendship, the mutual respect shared between their organizations, and how they’ve gone about building relationships based on authenticity.
On How They Met
ALICIA GARZA:
I remember first meeting you, Pastor Mike, in Atlanta. I feel like it was a funder conference? You and I were the only Black people at the table. So we started talking, and I said I had just come back from Ferguson, [MO]. And you were like, "Oh, for real?" I remember ending the conversation really feeling like, "This dude is cool as sh*t, and we need to keep building."
And then you and I went to breakfast. I remember sharing with you that I had been organizing in the Bayview where you lived and you shared some really powerful stories with me. We were fast friends from there.
The next time I saw you, I was walking out of Santa Rita Jail after me and some of my homies got the brilliant idea to bring Ferguson to Oakland, to not just call attention to the murder of Mike Brown, but also to the ways in which the problems that exist in Ferguson exist in Black communities all over the country. The morning I went, I told my partner, "Do not let these people disappear me in this jail." And he was on it, but he was not the first person I saw when I walked out of that jail. You were the first person I saw.
On The Importance of Building Authentic, Local Relationships
PASTOR MIKE:
I remember those memories. I will say that what I love about our relationship — the way it started and continues to grow — is that we both have been organizing or doing justice work here in the Bay Area, in various different forms, but didn't meet each other here. That reminds me that the best organizing and justice work is always local. That even when we do national work, you always need to have a place to come back home to where people can look out and vouch for you. Like the Black Panthers used to say, "Who your people?"
I have found in this work that a lot of people seek to build more national profiles than they do local. I love and respect that about you. And I love and respect that even as we began to know each other, we didn't always have the same analyses or agreement about things, but we have mutual respect and we'd show up for each other. You show up for me, I show up for you. This pandemic has taught me that good people and healthy relationships are the lifeblood that makes life meaningful. It's been a great journey to see your leadership and your work grow, and I look forward to more.
ALICIA:
It's been a blessing, Pastor Mike.
THAT REMINDS ME THAT THE BEST ORGANIZING AND JUSTICE WORK IS ALWAYS LOCAL. THAT EVEN WHEN WE DO NATIONAL WORK, YOU ALWAYS NEED TO HAVE A PLACE TO COME BACK HOME TO WHERE PEOPLE CAN LOOK OUT AND VOUCH FOR YOU.
– PASTOR MIKE
"YOU SHOW UP FOR ME, I SHOW UP FOR YOU. THIS PANDEMIC HAS TAUGHT ME THAT GOOD PEOPLE AND HEALTHY RELATIONSHIPS ARE THE LIFEBLOOD THAT MAKES LIFE MEANINGFUL."
- PASTOR MIKE
On Creating Inclusive Spaces Where All Black People Can Be Free
PASTOR MIKE:
I know as a pastor, just because you have a lot of folks following you, doesn’t always mean that the leader loves them. That goes up in lots of different ways for people who live on the margins of the margins. Obviously the Black LGBTQ community, which I've had to learn a lot about. My proximity to you has totally [supported that]. And folks like Layshia Clarendon who's a part of my church, and other young folks I've met since Ferguson and beyond who are queer. That didn't always align seamlessly with my journey. Being in proximity to Black queer folks has opened my heart to so many other kinds of challenges in the world that are clearly, in my mind and expression, of the worst of white supremacy and human degradation.
In a month like Black History Month, where we're trying to educate people — outside of the Black community, and sometimes inside the Black community — of our contributions, it's important to push ourselves to think about who we view as expendable. That’s one of the things I love about meeting so many people in this movement space. And I know that my job is to expose more folks in our communities to more people. I think it can be easy to disregard people you don't know.
IN A MONTH LIKE BLACK HISTORY MONTH, WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO EDUCATE PEOPLE — OUTSIDE OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY, AND SOMETIMES INSIDE THE BLACK COMMUNITY — OF OUR CONTRIBUTIONS, IT'S IMPORTANT TO PUSH OURSELVES TO THINK ABOUT WHO WE VIEW AS EXPENDABLE.
– PASTOR MIKE
ALICIA:
I thank you for praying with my mom [when she was dying]. My mom was not a religious woman, but she was deeply spiritual. Having you there, Pastor Mike, as a part of that piece of her journey meant so much to me.
It's interesting that you talked about this journey that you've been on, even around being open to being more free. One of the things that I feel connects us as Black people is that being Black for so many of us means that constant, endless pursuit of being able to live on your own f*cking terms in a world that wants to control and surveil and dehumanize you based on things that you have no control over. There's a deep desire to live as free as possible. Some of us call it not giving a f*ck, but it's not that. We actually care about a lot of things.
And you know, that is deeply a part of my experience being Black and queer. Getting rid of arbitrary rules about how things should be and allowing people to live as they see fit. That goes beyond sexuality. It’s a model for how we deeply question why we adhere to the rules that we do — to try and deeply understand what's behind those rules and who they serve. And ask what it would look like to unapologetically pursue freedom, even when you're being persecuted for it. That’s the story of Jesus, a story that connects so many of us.
THERE'S A DEEP DESIRE TO LIVE AS FREE AS POSSIBLE.
– ALICIA
On Their Appreciation For Each Other’s Leadership
PASTOR MIKE:
What I love about the way you lead and the work you do, is that I don't ever feel like you're out to exploit the people. You're always moving out of a deep sense of love for Black folk, which is rare. ‘Cause some people don't love Black folk these days like they say.
ALICIA:
That's real. One of the things I really appreciate about you is that you never blow smoke up my as*. You have said no to me, Pastor Mike, which people don't do. As organizers we know how to make people say yes. And there are things that I have tried to get you to say yes to, and you have said, "no, but I still rock with you."
And as a result, we've built a relationship that is built on authenticity. I deeply appreciate that about your leadership. And I see that reflected in the way that you so seamlessly knit people together that wouldn't normally rock together. An anchor. You're very, very skilled at that. And it's genuine.
PASTOR MIKE:
Girl, you're trying to make me cry.
...YOU SO SEAMLESSLY KNIT PEOPLE TOGETHER THAT WOULDN'T NORMALLY ROCK TOGETHER. AN ANCHOR. YOU'RE VERY, VERY SKILLED AT THAT. AND IT'S GENUINE."
- ALICIA
ALICIA:
I'm just telling the truth. There are a lot of programs out there that try to get people to put down guns or stop killing each other. But there are few programs like yours where part of the harm prevention strategy is restoring people's sense of being a full human being that deserves dignity, respect, and safety. That transformative process is actually what’s going to save us. It's what allows us to live to fight another day. That's why y'all are called LIVE FREE, right? It's free of violence, but it's also free of this notion that we don't deserve family, community, and safety — that we have to live in shame all the time or that the worst things that we've ever done in our lives define us. They don't, and your work really shows us that. And the way that you show up in the work reminds us to carry that forward.
PASTOR MIKE:
Black futures — I think that is the ultimate expression of freedom. Afrofuturism, like Wakanda, we are trying to create these spaces where we can live free. And I hope our work is complementary to the work and the aspirations that you and so many others are doing. I know that we are not an exhaustive organization, but I do hope that we’re a great partner.
ALICIA:
You are, you are, you are.
On What’s Next For Both Of Their Organizations
ALICIA:
We're turning four next month, and we're launching the Black Census again. That project was a love letter to our people, because so many of us don't get counted and we don't count as a measurement of progress or change. We're only seen as the problem and not the solution. What was affirmed for us from that process was that nearly every person we talked to, out of 30,000 people in every state in America, said, "I've never been asked what I go through every day. What I want to see for my future or what I think should be done about this thing. But I'm the one dealing with it." But how do we fix it? We celebrate Black history, but we also always have our eyes on Black futures. We're trying to get to our original goal of reaching 200,000 Black folks.
WE CELEBRATE BLACK HISTORY, BUT WE ALSO ALWAYS HAVE OUR EYES ON BLACK FUTURES.
– ALICIA
PASTOR MIKE:
You know I'm gonna be out in the neighborhood.
ALICIA:
You’re in. We're going to be doing house meetings across the country. We’re going to be doing focus groups, and we're training organizers across the country to take it out into their networks. We want it in prisons and jails like the first time. We want it at kitchen tables and on porches and rooftops. Everywhere it is that we gather. And what we hope for is an agenda that can bring us together. We were able to do that in 2020, using data from the Black Census, but the times are even more dire now than they were then. What's unique about this moment is that we are at the precipice of full disintegration of the weak infrastructure that we have right now, which will set a political precedent for the next 30 years in this country.
PASTOR MIKE:
We're excited to get the billions of dollars that we've secured at the federal level into 40 or so cities across the country over the next eight years and scale up public safety ecosystems that are informed and led by people who either used to pull the trigger or folks who have been shot by a gun. We want their families to be the ones who get the contracts and not the big, white-led groups that seem to always swoop in when the money is there, but leave when it’s gone. Build up the infrastructure of Black and brown communities to have self-determination around public safety, because if your community is safe, then you can actually talk about how to heal and provide basic needs for people.
It's going to be about getting this money from the federal government down to the ground. And we hope to build lots of infrastructure and organize mayors and city councils across the country to believe that you don't have to hire more cops if you're trying to have peace in the community. Jesus said, "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God." So to me, it's about being a peacemaker, so I can be called a child of God.
ALICIA:
Thank you, Pastor Mike. You’re a change and impact warrior. Love you.
PASTOR MIKE:
Love you, too. Thank you.
Photos shot on location by Brittsense (A.k.a Brittani Sensabaugh)
Read more about the Levi’s(R) Black History Now Program with Black Futures Lab and LIVE FREE.